Russian Martial Art
Home  |  FAQ FAQ  |  FAQ Search  |  Memberlist Memberlist  |  Usergroups Usergroups  |  Register Register  |    Our store
 Profile Profile    Log in to check your private messages Log in to check your private messages    Log in Log in 

Russian Martial Art Systema by Vladimir Vasiliev, its proprietors, instructors, agents, employees, servants, successors and assigns assume no responsibility or liability for any of the events, products, instructors or training partners and other information posted on the forum or elsewhere on this website or in any written materials distributed by RMA. All information and training is at your own risk.

What's new in Russian Martial Art  Posts   Last updated 
Clip of the month Free Video Clips
0
 Read more
No new posts Latest news
79
Tue 22 Apr, 2014 04:41 PM Read more
No new posts Product Reviews
484
Tue 22 Apr, 2014 10:21 PM Read more
No new posts Seminar Reviews
244
Thu 16 Jan, 2014 12:20 AM Read more
No new posts Announcement Board
30
Tue 08 Mar, 2011 05:24 PM Read more
No new posts Training Partners
1887
Wed 23 Apr, 2014 12:43 PM Read more
A Thought On If It's Fast or Jerky
Systema, Russian Martial Art Forum Index -> Systema Training and Practice

 

New topic

 

Reply to topic

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Alex Basile



Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 52
Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:57 pm    Post subject: A Thought On If It's Fast or Jerky Reply with quote

I was just thinking something. Does this principle of fast movement not throwing up warning signs, while still being quick, ably to other things? Perhaps someone can cover a distance faster than it seems like they're actually moving, for instance. What I mean by that is: someone crosses a decently large distance (let's say: across most of a room) in a couple of strides- but it doesn't startle anyone. Maybe the word for that would be: "a tigerish surge." The idea being smooth AND fast is how I interpreted it. Also, how does someone move fast, while still being solid? It's my interpretation (which may be wrong, or at least limited, in some situations) that when you are delivering a strike- you are, more or less, solidly planted. That's what gives the wave of motion it's power (it has a solid push-off). The only thing is that: when I see Vladimir (or Sonny Puzikas, or Martin Wheeler, or whoever else is doing the video) delivering a hit, they are always able to move fast, get out of the way of something else, or deflect a new attack- without any loss of solidity. Perhaps I lack knowledge or just the smoothness at this particular art to pull this off, but it seems like a very useful thing to be good at. I've been in a lot of street fights, and it was VERY rare that someone could "out-quick" me, but I'm seeing a different level of ability with Systema. Done in a different way, maybe someone could be fast, solid, manueverable, AND not telegraph their actions- all while tired, potentially injured, and with little warning. Like I was saying,"very useful." Does anyone have any insight or perhaps, training tips, on the subject?
_________________
Dynamics don't change because standards do.
(observation that's become a personal motto)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cole parzenn



Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts:

1) Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
2) It's very rare for a Systema practitioner to not be moving so it might just be more movement than you're used to seeing rather than faster movement.

There's also a "slight of hand" element, especially on the level the people you mentioned operate. So far as keeping 'solid,' dancers do the same thing.

Someone more knowledgeable and experienced than me will probably chime in shortly but those are some things to think about.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Alex Basile



Joined: 24 Sep 2011
Posts: 52
Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Cole. I appreciate the reply. You may be right about,"more movement than I'm used to seeing." I suppose that can have an, "overwhelming-the-brain," sort of effect. That could make it harder to track/trace what you're seeing. You're probably right about the, "slight of hand," thing, too. I've noticed that sort of effect, myself. About, "slow is smooth, smooth is fast," I think that has more to do with guns than with movement. I've definitely heard that, in regard to weapons manipulation (reloading quickly, clearing a jam, disengaging the safety/selecting the firing mode, etc...). The idea being: that if you rush, you may not do something right & then have to fix it, on top of that original problem (for example: dropping something, not lining the magazine up accurately, missing the charging handle, etc...). You may be right about that in regard to speed, but that particular saying is (if I'm not mistaken) in regard to operation of firearm mechanisms.
_________________
Dynamics don't change because standards do.
(observation that's become a personal motto)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cole parzenn



Joined: 30 Sep 2011
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'Slow is smooth and smooth is fast' can be taken many ways, I use the saying in the context of perception. Well executed and/or complex sequences of events often seem faster than they objectively are. A good example of this is how music students tend to play quickly because that's how they perceived a recording; the professional who made the recording played relatively slower but smoothly.

As for the 'slight of hand,' take a close look at a few videos (the ones with knifes are generally good examples) and try to spot whether or not the student is looking where he is being hit.

Edit: We should note that the article in question included:
Quote:
Human eye actively responds to jerky movements, to flashing and kaleidoscopic change of images...Our vision does not catch steady acceleration, but easily registers sharp changes from rest to moving.
How is a fast move different from jerky?
1. A truly fast body movement is smooth. It begins instantly without “collecting” the body together first. Without the haste, there is steady acceleration and it reaches its maximum speed at the target point.

This is a lot of what I was trying to get at with 'slow is smooth and smooth is fast' and 'slight of hand.' I hope that helps clarify and thanks for bringing up this topic; I enjoyed the discussion.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jack Gardner



Joined: 24 Dec 2003
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts on the reasons we can move fast without exciting our opponent are: we move with their movement, allowing it to continue; we match the speed of their movement; our movements are smooth and subtle. If you do not blend with the opponent's movement, any escape will immediately show them that their initial attack has failed, causing them to initiate another movement. Moving with the opponent, but not matching their speed by moving too fast, or too far ahead of them will give the same information to the opponent (that their initial attack has failed) and once again cause them to initiate a new attack (excite them). (Moving too slow just causes you to get hit.) Jerky movements make your movements more visible, and therefore easier for your opponent to react to. However, jerky movements can be used to induce tension in your opponent which can be exploited, usually by a less visible strike with another extremity.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic

Reply to topic

All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group