Systema Concepts in Sparring for a Newbie

Bill Wisotsky

Hello -- I have been studying Systema, now for maybe a month and it really has changed the way I have thought about things. I also study Kempo and last night during a Kempo sparring session, I decided to try to add some of the concepts I have been practicing in Systema to the Kempo sparring.

One of the most obvious things that I noticed was that I was much more successful with Systema concepts against certain opponents rather than others. Some of the people I sparred; specifically the more experienced aggressive ones that would come in straight with fast, powerful combination jabs, I was not as successful with. I found myself getting hit much more and as a result tensing up and reverting back to my hard kempo blocks against them. What are some of the more experienced Systema practitioners thoughts about this?

On the brighter side, my Kempo instructor told me that from what he saw, I looked much more relaxed, did not expend as much energy as I used to and was able to see more openings.

Thanks so much for your replies.

Sharon Friedman · Joined: 30 Jul 2004 Posts: 89 Location: IL

We are like mirrors most of the time and if someone is tense we tense as well and if a contact is moving our way in an aggressive way the fear in the body and in the mind tenses in turn. If you avoid reacting to others by breathing and simply feeling your body it will clean itself out and you will be less affected by the tension and intention of others. Stay with the basic breathing drills and work on accepting the fear and tension. This way you will be able to let them go rather than fight them.
Another suggestion is to relax your eyes and look forward and up when possible. It is hard at first but the freedom from focus will give you a lot of freedom after a while.

And do more push ups Very Happy

I know how you feel,
Sharon
Systema Israel.
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Peter Djordjevich · Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 171 Location: Roseville, CA

gene smithson · Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 320

You know that wont happen after 2 months of Systema training Smile

Seriously, keep training and watch yourself evolve. Maybe next time you will move and put some other sparring dudes in between you and those mad jabber guys.

peace
gene
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Bill Wisotsky · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:47 am Post subject:

Thanks so much for the responses. I have every intention to continue training. I have become "addicted" to System. I just wish I would have found it earlier.

Bradley Scheel · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:25 am Post subject:

Bill:
I suspect that if you would have found Systema sooner, your appreciation of it would be quite different. Wink

I also suspect that you now find yourself in the nether world between two arts. The more you learn about Systema, the less concepts like "sparring" make sense. There is an old adage: "If you are fighting, you are doing something wrong." Why? Fighting creates a natural tension. In that tension is fatique. There is also the manisfistation of ego (I must win, must get trophy, boy am I good....). The worst of all, to my mind, is the idea of tit for tat...he hits me, I hit him. He attempts to heet me and I break him is quite a different mindset.

Also in Systema, the idea of block and counter attack is blured. The principle is movement, the manisifistation is neither attack or defend, rather they become one...

Welcome to the wicked world of Systema.
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Bill Wisotsky · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:19 pm Post subject:

Bradley you said it perfect, "The Nether World".. I like that. The more I study Systema, the more I find so many things pointless, especially sparring. The egos, the tension, tit-for-tat.. Perfectly said.

I just can't wait for my next Systema class!! Very Happy

Thanks so much for the reply

RachelKlingberg · Joined: 12 Dec 2003 Posts: 795 Location: New York City

Trip Maxwell · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject:

Although your question was directly related to sparring I see other issues that may arise.

One problem you may face is boredom, questioning, resentment and criticism. The more you train in systema the less sense other traditional martial arts make. You may even start to get bored with class and then it is no longer fun to go. Then you start to play with it and using it against the other traditional students. Then they start asking you questions which you will answer and it makes them begin to think. This may cause a problem with your instructor who may ask you not to talk about other martial arts in his class. And then there is resentment. I remember having a 6th degree black belt in karate lay into me with everything he had in my stomach and it just didn't do anything to me anymore. After I hit him I could see something in his eyes change. He never looked at me directly in the eyes again and avoids me whenever he gets an opportunity. This is a shame because I really like the guy. Then you start getting criticism from some of the other students and may even start to feel alienated.

An older friend of mine who is an excellent martial artist in a very hybrid style once told me that many people don't like the idea that they have spent thousands of dollars and years of time training in something just to find out that their martial art may not be as effective as they thought it was and that they are not as untouchable as they would like to be.

I hope you don't face any of this, but be prepared for it none the less. Try and focus on the possitive. I hope you become a student for life in whatever you do. Always be willing to learn.

P.S. I used to try and "defend" systema from people who criticized it or thought it was BS. After talking to some of the more seasoned systema people I realized that I don't have to defend it. It defends itself. If you are talking about how good it is and feel that you need to defend it's effectiveness then somewhere along the way you start bragging. Just enjoy systema and don't worry about what others say or think about it. Systema is a wonderful and very personal thing. If someone doesn't see the value in it then they don't know what they are missing.
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"Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing.
Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength" - August Wilson

Bradley Scheel · Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject:

Trip Maxwell · Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:40 am Post subject:

Very good way to think about it.
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"Confront the dark parts of yourself, and work to banish them with illumination and forgiveness. Your willingness to wrestle with your demons will cause your angels to sing.
Use the pain as fuel, as a reminder of your strength" - August Wilson

Nathan Calvert · Joined: 14 Nov 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Alabama, USA

Bill,

While i have only studied systema for about six months, it is the third martial art i have taken interest in. From what it sound like you have a Kempo instructor that is supportive of students who take an interest in other martial arts and that is in my opinion the greatest advantage you can have. i don't know where i would be if i did not have an instructor who encourages me to train in what i enjoy and can learn more from.

Paolo Verrone · Joined: 13 May 2009 Posts: 4 Location: S. Severo, Italy

Well, I'm a lone Systema practicioner, and one of these days I celebrate the 1st anniversary. Before getting injured at my knee, I've also practiced CKM for 2 months, and the instructor is a very tough guy from Italian Forces of Carabinieri. He's studied and practiced a very lot of styles, but hadn't ever heard anything about Systema, just knew a little bit about Sambo. Being a 4th level instructor, he (just a bit) wondered how he didn't know anything like that, moreover sounding so strange. I talked with him about breathing, softness, awareness, and the wave principle. I must say that he sincerely listened to me, but, however, the guy was teaching and I had paid for learning Laughing

so the class went on. But I have had my revenge Very Happy

.

1) Proper breathing saved my ass during his CKM's Kickboxing-like training, restoring stamina, breathe and heartbeats frequency in a relatively shorter time; The truth was that I have not been in a combat class for 15 years and I'm not exactly in the best shape;

2) During the blindfold attacks I reacted very well, even when he suddenly mixed himself with other classmates;

3) When he taught us some technique to deal with punches, chokes and grappling, I constantly found new variations during sparring, and some times he stopped me and said something like "You see, you are doing an advanced military technique; in effects, so you can do this and that, because..." and shared his knowledge with me. Great.

4) During a 2vsMe surprise attack sparring, I've absorbed 2 (gloved) punches
at the jaw, 1 kick at the stomach, prevented the other to even touch me for 10-12 seconds, rolled on the ground to make them clash each other, moved wavelike and make one PUNCH the other. However, for the remaining time of the sparring (85%) I've been beaten, choked and slammed on the ground, but that's another fact. Wink

It's a very good thing to mix up freely everything we need without limits, and Systema is the best base to start from. It is like, ahem, a computer operative system. You can add everything to it, and it goes. No crusades to convince the others. Just allow them get closer to you.
Thank you all for the attention.
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