New systema investigator

[Adam Decker]

Call me Shane.
I'm brand new to systema, and would really like to be able to train in it, but I live in the Boise area of Idaho, and there are no schools nearby, and my dad won't let me try training with a friend of mine who had shown interest because of sue liability. I have done judo for the past 6 years, and really enjoyed it, but it's time for me to move on. Could I get some help, please?

[milosmalic]

[Adam Decker]

my dad's afraid that my friend might break his hand hitting me or something similar. If it's on our property then their family can sue or something like that. I explained how systema trains and even showed him the Hand to Hand movie, but he still said no. But he did say he thought it would be a good thing for me if we had an actual instructor.

[Stéphane Beaudin]

Go to the park, sign waivers, or found a coop, that way, if someone sues, he sues himself.

There is so much work to be done before starting with the actual hitting, you could train striking full time for a year without actually hitting each other, and still find there is room to perfect this.

Slow, slow work, conditioning, sensitivity and awareness, rolling, breathing, and breathing some more.

Might not be as cool as full speed chainsaw defense from the ground (still waiting for that DVD, especially with multiple attackers...) but it is Systema, and these will give you a solid base from which to do the rest.

Good luck.

[Peter Djordjevich]

I don't think liability laws are that strict anymore. During the 80-90s there were way too many injury accident liability law suits that it became rediculous. Here in California skate parks had to close because of kids injuring themselves. Now the laws have changed, so you see new public skate parks opening up everyday. Those kids crack their heads open on a daily basis, but their parents can't sue because it was of their own free will.

The thing you would have to worry about is your friend or his parents finding a lawyer that is a jackass and tries to sue you for fighting him eventhough you had a concentual agreement. That is where a waiver could help. But, if its a serious injury then health insurance might not want to pay because it was a high risk activity. This happend to me when I cracked my ribs snowboarding, insurance did not want to pay the ski resort health clinic for giving me a tetanous shot, and exam. Many instructors have a health insurance policy that covers their students to some degree.
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Behold, u kick me from teh urth; An killz me; An i has no guild er clan ur nothin; an' i'm duumed with everyone, even n00bs will pwnz me. An Ceiling Cat said unto him, therefore whosoevr pwnz cain, i will pwnz him 7x.

[RachelKlingberg]

[milosmalic]

Adam, thanx for the answer. I'm not familiar to those kind of legal constraints when it comes to training.

I guess it should be left for parents to take care of this. I mean, having two young boys voluntarily throwing punches at each other for sake of training, and having somebody sued if the other guy is hurt is a bit too hard core for me. I mean, c'mon!

What should boys do? Play XBox instead? Is there a legal advice that parents should sign liability waiver with Microsoft or Nintendo that their boys wont end up brain dead physically inferior asocial persons?

Sneak behind the garage with your friend and train, my personal advice.

[Chris Misek]

Milos,Eastern Europe is very different place to "west",especially in Slavic countries where our culture is sometimes seen as a little crazy
Some boys practising something like this is normal.My little cousin for example does not play x-box...this little kid thinks he is like his great-grandad,partizan.He builds bunkers and hideouts in the nearby forest to be prepared if facists are invading .Funny little kid.But its culture where "boys are boys" and they just do these types of things.

But thats where my relatives are.Here,where I reside in Australia,its totally different culture and mentality.Yes,people will sue,left,right and centre if injuries occur during such "training".
Thats why,you have to be very very carefull when starting group or something-know every letter of law because it can take one slip-you will be dragged to the courts and ruined.

[RachelKlingberg]

Don't sneak around behind your dad's back, Shane. That's no way to begin Systema training and is somewhat contrary to its philosophy. If you must, find a public park or a school, particularly if you are American. We are a litigation-crazy culture. But I have to play devil's advocate here, because I can see the other side of the coin. It is highly unlikely that anyone practicing Systema as it's taught by Vlad and Mikhail would be seriously injured, yet accidents happen, medical care is expensive, and most parents are emotionally devastated when their children are permanently disabled through accidents. It is not only the amoral parents who would seek legal restitution in such an unlikely scenario. Even well-meaning parents might want compensation for medical bills, time taken off work, and emotional distress. It would be a shark of a lawyer who could successfully argue that 'boys will be boys' and that the owner of the premises upon which the accident occurred had absolutely no responsibility towards safety of the two minors, one of whom is his own ward. An innocent man does not deserve a charge of criminal negligence, but the jury's sympathy often favors the victim and his or her family.

Forgive me for being such a buzzkill but you should either practice in the park or at school or else get the waivers signed to put your dad's mind at ease.

Good luck with your training and *vsego nailuchshego* (best wishes),
Rachel
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There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. - Sherlock Holmes

[Adam Decker]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Going behind my parent's backs had occured to me but I decided against it. I had also suggested training at a park but my dad had visions of policemen dancing through his head. I have, however, found a martial art rather similar to systema, although much less elegant, that has a buch of solo drills. It's called Ki Chuan Do.
The drills are designd to teach looseness, body unity, balace, basically almost everything systema does, so I can do that until I work something out with my parents.

[Marc Bresee]

If I may ask; how old are you Adam-Shane?

Am I reading correctly that your father won't let you scuffle with other boys because they might sue him?

Best wishes,
Marc

[Adam Decker]

I'm 17. You are correct. He will let me engage in random wrestling matches with some of my friends, but he doesnt' want me to train in this for reasons I don't completely understand, since wrestling is much more dangerous than systema when done smartly.

p.s.
Don't bother about calling me shane. It was the name I originally posted under, then I changed it to my real name.

[Kwan Lee]

[Marc Bresee]

Systema can be lethal ...our training rarely is. Injuries are generally scratches and bruises that heal in a couple days. The impression to outsiders is that it is brutal. Part of this is that its effectiveness is obvious, part is a projection of what people would expect of a Russian Martial Art...prejudice about a stereotype in a way. They scare themselves. Particularly true of people that are interested but can't bring themselves thru the door, wives and obviously some parents.

I had a grown man come in for training. He was a math professor, russian blood, in his thirties. He was strong from his own simple conditioning but he we was a bit like a child genius. His mother called very concerned about his safety. I reassured her that we would take good care of him. And told him not to complain about his treatment there. It is natural to go home and complain about aches and pains. I used to do that but could see it was worrying my wife. I would tell her that if I was attending tennis lessons I would be complaining about pains. Still she would worry. I learned to stop complaining. This student didn't last long since he couldn't take the heat (literally) it is very unfortunate as it would have been the absolute best thing for him. I saw another student quit because of pressure from a wife ...I'd imagine his complaining scared her.

Anyway, training can be hard. There will be bumps and such but we are all respect each other and there is no intent to harm.

I think your father should perhaps see how we train and then he could make an informed decision. I can't imagine a father not wanting a son to gain some skills. Perhaps you could encourage him to come along too. It sounds like there is allot of fear there and facing it can be good for all.

And training in the park will generally not be a problem to police. If it bothers them you will only get asked to move to another location. (You may have issues training with handguns obviously.)

Good luck with it ...whatever the case you only have a short time until you are an adult. Systema will still be there. (I started training in martial arts when I was 20. I wish it had been earlier but it is what it is ...and it has been plenty good).

And you CAN buy vids and make some solo progress too.

Marc

[Bradley Scheel]

My wife sees new bruises and simply asks: "Now what happened?"

Shane: I am not sure what the problem really is. Your father is over protective? Sue happy? What is it he says when you discuss the whys of his decisions?

Wait a year and do what you want. In the mean time there are resources availble to you regarding the foundation of our System: breathing, relaxation, movement and posture. I presume your father will let you breathe?

regards.
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