Movement inside the movement

[Martin Wheeler]

Movement inside the movement.

I have had the privilege to train under some amazing teachers in a number of fighting systems over the years. But for all the brilliance, similarities and differences of these fighting styles I cannot compare them in any shape or form to The System.

Last week I was lucky enough to train with Mikhail and Vladimir. And afterwards considered an observation that is unique to the experience of the art under such teachers.

The level at which we think and the level at which we function are related, but also fundementally redundant to each other. The mind cannot comfortably deal with all the information the body experiences physically, psychologically and pychically at any one moment and allow us to think effectively. For example if we had to think about walking around we would not get very far in a day, and any conscious level of thinking to eat would soon ruin the experience of taste and enjoyment of the food. We function, experience and analyze but rarely attempt to separate the experience of the whole.

Experience teaches us to make decisions and then allow the body to think for itself. When a hand reaches out for a fork, or balls up to strike an opponent the subconscious plays a major part in directing the hand to the objective. The conscious mind simply does not work efficiently or fast enough to direct the hand through all the myriad functions of the muscles, tendons, bones etc that are required to make the action. We rely on experience and ‘stop points’ to tell the mind that certain requests are completed and that another request may be acted on.

When a punch is thrown it has to land or miss (one or the other ‘stop points’) for the mind to understand what is happening and not continuing flowing. If neither of those things happen then the person throwing the punch is at the mercy of their own subconscious.

Working with Mikhail last week, one of the experiences my body registered was the ability of Mikhail to slip inside my movement, never allowing me to reach a logical stop point. As I reached out to grab him my hand (and body) had to register the stop to react again.

If Mikhail just left me I could easily re-adjust, but by staying with me he replaces the feeling I am expecting by letting my mind feel ‘a positive something’, essentially ‘catching’ my consciousness. I experienced a drift in my mind as it allowed itself to be guided, unable to use the familiar landscape of ‘stop points’ to navigate the space I was in. But also aware that my body is feeling something gentle, so as not to alarm it.

Mikhail for all intents and purposes had slipped inside my subconscious movement and was guiding my body. It seems likely that we have an outside shell of recognizable movement, and ninety- percent internal movement. A high percentage of what we do is unrecognizable movement to the conscious part of the mind.

Becoming ‘soft’ allows your mind (and body) to meld with an opponent’s subconscious movement. Guiding it to a natural conclusion without 'stop points', practically unaware to the opponent's conscious mind.

This is also extremely healthy for all parties involve. And easy to recognize if done effectively, your opponent should be laughing as they are guided.

Hope this is useful to someone.

Martin

[David Hohl]

Very useful Martin! Thank you!

"When a punch is thrown it has to land or miss (one or the other ‘stop points’) for the mind to understand what is happening and not continuing flowing."

This example and the idea of stop points makes the concept much more clear to me. I hope to see you in person soon to experience it!

David
_________________
+++++
TFMM

------------------------------
Golden Gate Systema
www.systemacombat.com

[RobGreen]

MARTIN!
Good first post -- frankly, I think many have waited for you to visit here. Let me be the first to extend a cyber-greeting.

That 'stop point' -- understanding this reaction from people (allowing them the 'happy fist' or 'happy movement') is truly a concept that I rarely found in other m.a. -- and even when I did -- it was never as developed as what we use it for. When a student asks about drilling with a heavy bag -- ala boxing type drills -- it is easy to explain that the 'stop point' trigger becomes so ingrained from such training that, when the 'point' has no contact (to triggger another strike) it tends to throw the timing of such attacks off completly...like asking a question repeatedly, yet no answer is returned.

Trying to hit Misha or Vlad -- and searching for that stop point, is very much like pursuing a mirage...'it' is always 'right ther', we chase it faster and harder -- yet it melts away...just as we think we have 'it'. This conviction and belief in our pursuit -- is a tool used for the seemingly 'magical' no-contact work of Systema that never really comes across well in vids -- but when it is done to me, or I do to others in training
(to my limited ability to demonstrate); YES -- first comes surprise -- then laughter.

Hope to see you at FightHouse, whenever you vist there next.
_________________
Rob Green
NYC
"OK - so, whats the speed of 'dark'"?

[Scott Connor]

Martin, welcome.
Nice post.
Shows how these two can always seem to "be there", not forcing anything but "in the moment" able to shape a new "endpoint" for you.
Controllable yet comfortable is what you want in an attacker don't you think?
It feels as though they can create an atmosphere where I am happy to go just where thay want me to. Laughter is a usual response.
Sensitivity or what?

[Brad Scornavacco]

Martin,

Fancy seeing you here.

I experienced a bit of this when demo'ing with Vladimir in Chicago last week. We were going slowly and as he moved I had time to adjust. At this speed I still had conscious control of my own movements and still had points of reference of when and how to keeping moving.

Vladimir then explained that if we moved a bit faster I would not have the time to make any mid-course corrections, to regain conscious control of my own movements, and I would have to go where he put me. This is exactly what happened. As soon as I made a committed attack I was done. And yes, laughter ensued.
_________________
If you are not enjoying your life then there is something seriously wrong with you.

Anthony De Mello, S.J.

[Mark Jakabcsin]

Well, that's a keeper post. Printed and saved.

Thanks for sharing Martin, I look forward to reading more of your posts. Take care.

mark j.

[Martin Wheeler]

Thanks for reading, and the replies, hope it wasn't too blunt. The experience is different for everyone and hard to put into words sometimes. Definitely look forward to seeing everyone at the seminars.

Martin

[Martin Wheeler]

Thanks for reading, and the replies, hope it wasn't too blunt. The experience is different for everyone and hard to put into words sometimes. Definitely look forward to seeing everyone at the seminars.

Martin

[Marc Bresee]

This was a great post. I wish Martin posted more

[RachelKlingberg]

Excellent post, Martin, thank you for your insight on this subtle and high-level Systema concept. It may be hard to put into words but you've done it justice with your concise and elegant description. I hope you will continue to share your Systema writing with this forum.
*Spasibo y vsego nailuchshego* (thank you and best wishes),
Rachel
_________________
There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact. - Sherlock Holmes

[Chris Misek]

Thanks for posting that super stuff.
Its great to have another advanced practicioner like yourself posting.
Something I will never forget Martin-was seeing you and Val Riazanov in a seminar in England (i was not there,saw footage)demonstrating a knife flow drill on the ground-absolutely top notch!

[Martin Wheeler]

This was actually an older post that Vladimir had asked me to comment on some time ago that has resurfaced. I would write on more subjects but they are usually so well answered by other instructors that when I read them I'm like wow, that's interesting, so I don't know what to add.

[morten danielsen]

Dear Mr. Wheeler.

We have not met as far as I know.

But still I have heard that you have a lot to contribute to this forum with so please just feel free to repeat, make your resume and have your go - I am sure we appreciate as before also in the future. For me I can only say that experience from you "old" guys are worth a lot to us "newcommers".

If you dont have a subject - then perhaps; your thoughts on knifework, movement (with or without weapons), shortwork, one against many, applications etc.

Thank you in advance.
_________________
All the best to all of you.

God Bless

Morten Danielsen

[Martin Wheeler]

Ok, thanks Morten. I'll think of something to post.