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About Systema Punches
Systema, Russian Martial Art Forum Index -> Masters Forum - Articles and Interviews
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Stéphane Beaudin



Joined: 06 May 2005
Posts: 449
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes, the anger can be ego covering up the pain, but sometimes, when we hit, we just dislodge emotion stored in tension. When using slaps to break down muscle tension, especially in the shoulders I have seen this a lot, so I guess it is very likely that even more fundamental emotional stuff will be stored in visceral areas.
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Brian King



Joined: 06 Dec 2003
Posts: 395
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA. USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Cleary wrote
Quote:
“I have a feeling that the answer is: Patience, more pushups, more placing/pushing drills, but is there some key point that I'm just not seeing?”


Tim I attended a strike seminar taught by Kaizen Taki and I noticed that like Jim King he used very precise words to describe the ‘work’ going so far as to quote from a dictionary. It helped me then and still. Here on this forum we often use words like hit, punch and strike interchangeably when in fact they are separate words with their own place in describing the work.

An exercise I do occasionally although not often enough is to write down several words that describe what we (or I) do. Then I look the words up in a dictionary and write the definitions down. With-in these definitions are always one or two words also worth looking up and writing down their definitions.

An example perhaps can show the usefulness of finding and using the correct word(s) to increase understanding. The word ‘touch’ may seem out of place on a thread such as this dealing with punches but besides the usual meaning and use of the word touch, Webster’s dictionary also defines touch as to put the hand, finger etc on or into contact with (something), to feel it. Another definition is to come into contact with and perceive.

So that gives us the words contact and perceive or perhaps feel or into and if you look those up you will find out that …....well if you care you will look them and others up and perhaps share your understanding with your training partners.

Sometimes Tim people have preconceived notions and pictures in their head of what a word means, say the word punch, i.e. (snap/tense/rotate/destroy own arm; gauge power on amount of shock returned to striker's body)... and no matter how many times you try to correct them they will not get it after all they are correct and stuck on one definition of a word and it might be the correct definition, so sometimes it may be easier to change the word that changes their perception and understanding..

Brian
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Bradley Scheel



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1346
Location: CYBERIA//Absurdistan/Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I like to use the word "heet", it's the word Vlad uses and is good enough for me without being terribly anal about things.

It often comes as a surprise to the person who releases emotion while being het. The emotional release is not only anger but, covers the gamut of emotions.

It is essential to work through these emotions to become "professional", simply denying them probably contributed to their being burried in the first place.

People who skirt the emotional issues or suffer a deflated ego oft times fail to return to practice. That is their loss, they do not deserve Systema.
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vinnycampbell



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 153
Location: Lancashire UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We can learn a lot from Mikhail, and how he conducts himself. He is a true professional, no ego, simpicity, honesty, and most importantly despite his standing, humility ........all the other stuff that usually gets in the way was 'heet' out of him a long time ago. He had a good teacher!
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Tim Cleary



Joined: 13 Nov 2006
Posts: 167
Location: Glebe, Sydney

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys - I don't mean to derail the thread or anything.. You've given me some new concepts to think about.

Tim..
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Bradley Scheel



Joined: 10 Dec 2003
Posts: 1346
Location: CYBERIA//Absurdistan/Wisconsin

PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea!!!

can't ask for much more than that.


Very Happy
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Peter Saika



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: reply to earlier point on "How much is too hard?" Reply with quote

My son and I were working together the other day and he tapped me, ever so lightly, on a spot on my upper back by my shoulder blade. What happened next is really beyond description. My entire upper left quadrant was a sea of anguish, pain, and sorrow. It was impossible for me to keep standing up. The emotional component completely overwhelmed the pain and myself, there is no other way to describe it. My son struck me again with a downward sweep and most of it was gone.

The following day I went to the chiro for an adjustment and he pointed out that I had three displaced ribs. I have been watching in amazement the videos of people buckling under what appear to be physically light punches and just didn't understand how it would work, not that it wasn't possible. To experience this first hand at the hands of a youngster truly was inspiring, once the pain was gone. Smile
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Donna Djordjevich



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: About Systema Punches Reply with quote

Checking the dates on a lot of these forum posts makes me realize just how "late" I'm posting this but since Peter S. called it to my attention again... (nice anecdote, btw)

Tim Cleary wrote:
I train with a group of guys who are much more Systema- and martially more experienced than I am and they have no trouble delivering more 'heet' to me than what I can deliver to them (or in delivering more than I can breathe through) - But... I also train with some folks who have very little experience/exposure with striking and moving - and I find myself wanting more from their strikes than they're capable of delivering.

So when I ask for more, instead of relaxing more to give more 'heet', they tense up trying to 'punch' harder and I can feel this blocking them up- real damage to the striker is a possibility, so I generally end up switching to another drill (less damage to partners means more play-time for me.. I know, I'm selfish...)


Personally, I feel it's also a psychological issue. For example, I don't like punching people. No joke. I really don't. It's not something I exact any amount of pleasure from.

I find it a frustrating, irritating, and troubling experience that merely brings up all sorts of inadequacy issues. I've also been told I think about it too much. Which is probably true.

I find, in those drills, it's not my "technique" that I find myself battling against so much as what's going on in my mind and trying to overcome that - then the drill at hand. Sure, push-up's may help. I think the greater issue; however, is channeling that, "inner fighter." I.E.: Becoming comfortable with hitting someone that isn't a wall, a door, a tree, or the like.

Or maybe I just need to value my opponent/sparring-partner the same way I value a wall, a door, or a tree... . . . and would that make me a sociopath?


So, I apologize ahead of time for not hitting you hard enough and having too much tension in my hits. It's a personal problem, I'm workin' on it. Smile


I guess, in a round-about sort of way, this also falls back to Vlad's original post. Maybe I am punching well/strongly and no one tells me so I stress about it and then my punches decline... . Or maybe I really don't (sigh) so please don't remind me Wink

~ddd, hits like a girl - no surprise there?
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James Lee



Joined: 17 May 2004
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My twelve year-old sister throws bombs that ring her oversized big brother's bells, all after about 15 minutes of basic Systema strike training. If she can do it, anyone can Very Happy
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Donna Djordjevich



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James Lee wrote:
My twelve year-old sister throws bombs that ring her oversized big brother's bells, all after about 15 minutes of basic Systema strike training. If she can do it, anyone can Smile


Great, so I hit like an under-12-year-old-girl. Thanks for the vote of confidence. Smile

~ddd
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Peter Saika



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:05 am    Post subject: I feel for you Donna, Reply with quote

I know what you mean. There is such a bunch of noise in my head as I am about to strike anyone. 40+ years of conditioning that it is bad to hit someone just isn't going away that easily. I made sure to never fill my kids heads with that garbage. There is an appropriate action all the time, sometimes it just means knocking someone down, for their own good maybe.
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